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Now we can eat horse meat!

AdamJ

Well-known member
epicamends---looks like you guys may have been eating horse meat all this time and didn't know it-----well---maybe we all have at some time or another but it still makes me sick to think about it. However our native Americans (Indians) ate dogs-------------------Maybe I will go vegetarian---------------------------------
 

robinannhunt

New member
epicamends---looks like you guys may have been eating horse meat all this time and didn't know it-----well---maybe we all have at some time or another but it still makes me sick to think about it. However our native Americans (Indians) ate dogs-------------------Maybe I will go vegetarian---------------------------------

It makes you think doesn't it?:D
 

epicamends

New member
Sorry:

Sue Wallis, a Wyoming state lawmaker who's the group's vice president, said ranchers used to be able to sell horses that were too old or unfit for work to slaughterhouses but now they have to ship them to butchers in Canada and Mexico, where they fetch less than half the price.

That's not why I said that. It's the divided nature that is the current political climate of the US that irks me and makes me nervous for things to ever get better. I may not agree with everything my mayor says or does, but I truly respect his willingness to explain his actions, speak with his critics, and compromise to come up with alternative options that may better suit the needs of the majority. It's the unwillingness on the part of most (not all) American political leaders and people to compromise and attempt to better understand the side of the other, and the rashness with which the discussion continually gets put onto who to blame or point fingers at, that makes me wary of things in the States.

I love the US. New York City is probably my favourite city in the entire world (granted, I haven't had the opportunity to travel much, but still). There are many jobs that I would love to move to the US for someday, but until things become less divided and argumentative in the political world, I will happily remain where I am. That's why I said what I did. It actually had little to nothing to do with this current horse meat issue.

Sorry for the tangent! No more politics talk from me. Moving on. :)
 

Farawayhills

Well-known member
I don't eat meat at all (just in case anyone's wondering what my position in this issue might be)

What concerns me is this debate so far is the apparent rush to blame Obama, as if this is somehow his policy, or his idea.

It isn't - the measure was passed by Congress as part of a complex package on finance. Obama could have vetoed the entire package - but that is unrealistic, as he badly needs Congressional approval of spending to keep the federal services operational. Even Murdoch's Fox News (which carries a heavy bias against Obama) admits this in its article:
"Congress lifted the ban in a spending bill President Barack Obama signed into law Nov. 18 to keep the government afloat until mid-December."
Unfortunately, Obama doesn't have power to strike out certain clauses - he either vetoes the entire measure, or signs it as a package.

Why Congress passed this particular element of the package is probably due to lobbying. Several business interests and horse breeding societies want a return to horse slaughtering (the breeders argue, controversially, that the horse population will suffer from disease and neglect if 1% are not slaughtered annually). Commercial horse slaughtering was practised in the US until a few years ago. Almost all the meat was exported, to countries where it is eaten, although a small amount was sold to American zoos. Some slaughterhouses want a return to that practice, and lobbied their congressional representatives to vote for it.

Raising public awareness is the only way to provide a counterbalance to well-organized lobby groups. Representatives (in all countries) tend to listen more to well funded and well organized interests. Although they are democratically responsible to their voters, voters often have less influence because they have less awareness and organization. A survey showed that 85% of Texans did not know that horses were still slaughtered for food in their state in the 2000s (most of the meat was then exported to Latin America).
 

rainbow1

Active member
Faraway, don't give up on us. We need you, to see the big picture. Russ, you are one funny guy!! Thank you for your comedic relief!!!
 

Ann055

New member
Line item vetoes can be done, however with all that is put into one piece of legislation, it is very rarely done due to time constraints.
 

Carrieflattsfan

New member
I feel sort of silly for what I said earlier. This lies on the shoulders of the voters who passed this, and as one of you said, it was probably within a package and he couldn't veto one policy without voiding the entire thing. Everytime I hear the words "animal" and "slaughter," my heart takes over for my brain, I swear. I feel like this is such an emotional issue, people are going to blame Obama for this, instead of looking at the entire situation, but he will take the fall for the voters, when they should take the fall for him. The price of the being the President I suppose.
 

Farawayhills

Well-known member
Ha, ha, Rainbow - I don't think I could ever give up on a Carrie board - once you find Carrie, for so many reasons, she's someone you never want to leave. And she has some great fans too!

Ann - thanks for the explanation. I think you're right - with deadlock and bankruptcy looming, there's no time for fine sieving.

Carrieflatts - yes, it is very emotional. Some countries don't have inhibitions about eating horseflesh - in some Continental countries it's still on restaurant menus. The English-speaking world tend to see the horse as a noble companion, and it's taboo. In a way, though, you can't be surprised that some commercial interests will try hard to export to where a market exists. Public opinion can sometimes draw a line on what is acceptable. Over here, there was a big public campaign to stop firms exporting live horses to France, where they were killed for meat. I remember people picketing the docks at Shoreham to stop them loading the horses.

Politicians do ultimately have to take the responsibility if they give too much to special interests - in this case though, I think some headlines are over-simplifying it by giving an impression that "the President" has pushed this particular policy through (when what he did was sign a bill of which it was by no means the biggest, or most urgent part). That does tend to happen everywhere in a bitterly divided political climate (as at present). People tend to demonize the side they don't agree with, and almost every issue tends to become symbolic of a cultural battle.
 

Ann055

New member
I agree, Far...the 435 Members of the House of Representatives and 100 Members of the U.S. Senate need to really be scrutinized at election time. If there was some way all these amendments could be kept out of the pieces of legislation that it has nothing to do with - this kind of problem wouldn't be as prevalent. Both sides do it - and really these all nighter sessions in the House and Senate to get all these other issues into an important piece of legislation...sliding something in in the dark of the night...is incredibly frustrating. I know a good amount of people aren't aware that this goes on all the time and if they did, maybe something could be done about it -- at the polls. I have stayed up all night many times listening to this nonsense on C-SPAN and have even called into Senators' offices because the ones that are watching the legislation know what's happening and one time when I called a staffer told me the Senator was watching himself on the TV. The problem is if all Members of the Senate (if that's who is introducing the amendments) or House -- whichever -- aren't there to ask for a vote, all they have to do is ask that the amendment be added, ask for a second, if no objections, it is added to the legislation, it just slides in. If it is a huge piece of legislation and a vote is coming the next day, the Members don't have time to read everything before a vote and needless to say, they aren't even aware of what was put in the final piece of legislation they are voting on. Then, you get something extremely important that needs to be signed into law by the President and all this other junk goes into law with it. Presidents are blamed because they have the final say so, but all 535 Members of Congress who are supposed to be voting for the people are the ones who need to be thoroughly examined and made to be held responsible.
 
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