Carrie Underwood Fans

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2019 Kennedy Center Honors

opry051008

New member
Writing your own songs is not the be all end all of an artist. Absolutely not, but I can't see how it can be categorized as grossly overrated. There is a talent in being able to write in a way that people relate to, when others would never be able to do that. Look at Dolly, she obviously has an incredible talent in her voice, and interpretation skills, as well as her acting, business, and philanthropic skills as well. And then there's her writing. She's simply one of the greatest writers in music history, but would she still be one of greatest icons of entertainment without the writing? Then look at Reba, she writes very, very, very little, but is still an icon of entertainment.

So, while writing isn't necessary to be an influencer in your career, it definitely adds a level to one's resume of talent.

Agree that it definitely adds a level but it's overrated in the fact singers aren't considered "artists" these days unless they write their own stuff. It's almost like you're looked down on by other artists if you're just a "singer".
 

thaifood

Active member
You folks do understand that when a song is played on the radio the royalties go to the writers right? So tell me again why it doesn’t matter.
 

opry051008

New member
^^ I'm not referring to the monetary value of writing a song, it's the "you're considered less of an artist if you didn't write the song" attitude that bugs me.
 

CarrieAddicted

Well-known member
I don't care about who wrote the songs either, but, to me, it all comes down to awards, LMAO

When an artist writes their own songs, they get an extra shot at winning more awards. Take a look at Carrie: her "work" has won 10 Grammys, but since she didn't write JTTW, BHC and BA, she herself won only 7 of those Grammys. She coulda won 10 had she wrote those ones.

And I agree with the ones here who said that judging an artist/entertainer by the fact that they wrote or not their songs is ridiculous.
Aretha, Whitney, Celine never wrote a single song and are regarded as the greatest female vocalists and entertainers of the 20th and 21st centuries.

Still on the matter of awards: both Whitney and Celine woulda won Oscars had they wrote their respective Oscar-winning songs. Oh, well....
So, that's the only part of songwriting that matters to me. LOL
 

jaymiee

Member
I know it comes off better to say an artist wrote all their songs but I'm just saying if Carrie released a cover album I would buy it in Heartbeat. I love hearing her sing covers because her voice is soo good (How Great Thou Art, Neon Moon, Remember When, Independence Day, Paradise City etc....)
 

adam1995

Well-known member
Agree that it definitely adds a level but it's overrated in the fact singers aren't considered "artists" these days unless they write their own stuff. It's almost like you're looked down on by other artists if you're just a "singer".

Well, one of those singers is a Kennedy Center Honor recipient this year, and two were recipients last year, so I don't think singers need to actually worry about being perceived as an artist or not, as long as they have forged their own path. I feel like those that focus on the artist vs. singer thing are just looking for ways to undermine musicians. Writing is important, as without it there are no songs, but again it is not the most important aspect to every artist. Sometimes it is an artists defining skill, and sometimes it is not. For Linda it is not the most important attribute, for someone like Swift it is. I think it is only considered overrated in certain circles.
 

Farawayhills

Well-known member
This thread has taken a turn that i wasn't expecting, lol.

I think it's likely that when Carrie said what she admired most in Linda was doing whatever she wanted, she meant not being bound by supposed genre limits or preconceptions, and not being bound by what radio was currently playing.

Cover songs can help to illustrate that freedom. The two that Carrie sang in the tribute performance had both been revivals by Linda. "Blue Bayou" was co-written by Roy Orbison at the beginning of the 1960s. Thematically, it was pretty obviously inspired by Jimmie Rodgers' "Miss the Mississippi", from the beginning of the 1930. Both also drew musically from Black-White fusion styles. "When Will I Be Loved" was written by Phil Everly, also at the beginning of the '60s - even at the time, it could be considered a late example of Rockabilly (another fusion style, between Blues and Mountain Music), which had earlier entered the Mainstream, but was well past its heyday when the Everly Brothers recorded it. That would have been all the more the case, when Linda decided to revive it. This tradition of drawing on past songs, fusing styles, and extending ideas into new forms has been particularly important in Country Music (which, even at its most commercial, has never fully abandoned its roots, as a folk idiom). Linda's freedom was particularly evident in her choosing to interpret songs that conventional record company thinking might not have regarded as predictable, in terms of fashion, or current stereotypes. (The particular stamp she put on them often earnt them wide public and critical acclaim, notwithstanding conventional "play safe" opinion).

The general question raised about the importance of songwriting (and its relation to overall artistry) can never be settled definitively, because so much depends on the person being asked, the type of music being considered, and the relative weight attached to different elements in the overall creative process that brings us the music we listen to. Obviously, a classical enthusiast is likely to place much more emphasis on the composer than a Pop fan is likely to, for example. I would place Country Music somewhere between those extremes - fans who are more attracted to the stage performance and voice of the singer may be relatively closer to the Pop end of the spectrum, and largely indifferent to the name of the composer - while those whose tastes run closer to the Folk or Singer/Songwriter tradition may be more inclined to value artists as much for their writing. But, even in classical music, things are never cut and dried - the works are usually listed primarily by the composer, but the interpretation by the performers or orchestra directors, can vary greatly, and have to be given considerable weight. In Country Music, we often do value artists highly by the songs they have written - and songs by people like Hank Williams, Merle Haggard, John Prine, Iris Dement, Townes Van Zandt, Lucinda Williams, etc, are widely admired, revived and copied by other artists - but, again, it is not a case of 'either/or' - those artists are also admired for their singing styles (which is not the same thing as their technical vocal brilliance) and for their mood expression, and their interpretation of their own, and others' songs.

Instrumental music, by the way, adds another dimension to the discussion, because players may be valued more for the improvisation that they incorporate in, or add to, an underlying melody - far more than any actual notes that they may or may not have written. That is largely another topic - but it is particularly important in fields like Bluegrass and Country Rock.

In Carrie's case, I think there are certainly points of similarity between her approach and skills, and those of Linda. But I also think there may be areas in which Carrie might be considered more innovative. In my opinion, it would short-change Carrie if we only considered her as a great vocalist. She may indeed be the greatest of her generation, in that field - but, to my mind, it pigeon-holes or stereotypes her to consider that alone. Carrie herself is proud of her songwriting, and has been praised for it by people she's worked with. The production on "Cry Pretty" also shows that she both has an ear for, and is not to afraid to extend , musical innovation. An obvious example to me is the innovative way she has included progressive use of resophonic instruments, especially dobro, in some of the songs. To me Carrie is an all-round musical force in today's genre, and deserves to be considered for her creative skills as a whole.
 

adam1995

Well-known member
For all those that don't care who write the songs, why do you care that Carrie get recognized for her songwriting?
 

CarrieAddicted

Well-known member
For all those that don't care who write the songs, why do you care that Carrie get recognized for her songwriting?

Simple: because, since she writes her songs, then she should be recognized. If she didn't write, we would be fine with that (as stated), as she excels in all areas possible.
 

Smokyiiis

Well-known member
Because CARRIE herself would love to be recognized for her songwriting ability! By the very industry she has been marked solely as a vocalist in when it comes to awards. I was sincerely hoping she'd win that album nomination for this very reason. I want very much for her to be recognized for abilities in every phase of the music from song concept to production.
 

adam1995

Well-known member
Simple: because, since she writes her songs, then she should be recognized. If she didn't write, we would be fine with that (as stated), as she excels in all areas possible.

But the writers on Linda Ronstadt songs don't need that recognition? That's how I interpret people saying they don't care who the writers are of songs, sounds like it just doesn't matter if they are given credit. You can't really say that you care if songwriter Carrie gets recognized but not songwriter Josh Kear. Doesn't seem you can have both.
 

adam1995

Well-known member
Because CARRIE herself would love to be recognized for her songwriting ability! By the very industry she has been marked solely as a vocalist in when it comes to awards. I was sincerely hoping she'd win that album nomination for this very reason. I want very much for her to be recognized for abilities in every phase of the music from song concept to production.

Then songwriting and producing are not overrated! We agree!
 

CarrieAddicted

Well-known member
But the writers on Linda Ronstadt songs don't need that recognition? That's how I interpret people saying they don't care who the writers are of songs, sounds like it just doesn't matter if they are given credit. You can't really say that you care if songwriter Carrie gets recognized but not songwriter Josh Kear. Doesn't seem you can have both.

But our whole point here is the artists themselves, not the songwriters. The perspective is "artists who write". If they do, then award them for that. If they don't, OK, we care for the artist, who we are fans of. When we say we "don't care who wrote" it means that we value the artists (again, who we're fan of) most, but that doesn't mean we don't celebrate when the songwriters get credit.
We're also defending artists who don't write their material, because there's so much more to an entertainer than that. There are people out there who truly bash those who don't write.

Everyone should be recognized for their work. For example, I'm a huge fan of songwriter Diane Warren, she's my all-time favorite.
 

adam1995

Well-known member
But our whole point here is the artists themselves, not the songwriters. The perspective is "artists who write". If they do, then award them for that. If they don't, OK, we care for the artist, who we are fans of. When we say we "don't care who wrote" it means that we value the artists (again, who we're fan of) most, but that doesn't mean we don't celebrate when the songwriters get credit.
We're also defending artists who don't write their material, because there's so much more to an entertainer than that. There are people out there who truly bash those who don't write.

Everyone should be recognized for their work. For example, I'm a huge fan of songwriter Diane Warren, she's my all-time favorite.

Understand. The bolded is what I care about the most. I agree entertaining and artistry has so many facets to it. I think that those who try the lay the title artist n just those that sing and write are the ones overrated, and really irrelevant. I think most people aren't trying to box artists up neatly like that, it's mostly the pompous.

I feel there are different most important skills within entertainers. Taking Carrie, I feel her voice is her most important asset. It's her most recognizable part of her career. She writes and that helps to prop her up, but it's not her most important component. Her business helps to prop her up, as well as the producing, live performances, and all other aspects of her career. They are all important, and together make her the artist she is.

However, looking at someone like Dolly, her voice is great and unique, but her writing is arguably as important or more so than her voice, because without those songs do we have Dolly? Also, her business sense, acting career, personality, image and icon status back her up. But, I'd argue songwriting is her most important asset. Taking Taylor Swift, I'd say writing is her main helper, because we know her voice isn't it, but she's also a great businesswoman.

I guess my overall point is, you are right, so much goes into an artist, and all aspects of their individual careers are not weighed equally. However, songwriting is so important, especially country music. It used to be so great (and there are still great songs but...), look at what dominates now, awful. Country needs to put an emphasis back on writing.
 

sco

Well-known member
^^^ I wonder if the idea that an artist isn't 'real' if they don't write their own songs plays into the degradation of great writing. That's what I think of when I say writing is overrated. Writers are invaluable but there is also great artistry in interpreting and performing any song. Just as there is value in being an instrumentalist there is also value in being primarily a vocalist.
 

txacar

Well-known member
^^^ I wonder if the idea that an artist isn't 'real' if they don't write their own songs plays into the degradation of great writing. That's what I think of when I say writing is overrated. Writers are invaluable but there is also great artistry in interpreting and performing any song. Just as there is value in being an instrumentalist there is also value in being primarily a vocalist.


A few years back John Rich had a talent show on TV. He told the contestants they would have to write an original song to perform if they wanted to be an artist. I agree with you there is wonderful artistry in interpreting and performing a song. Imagine the two great, great song stylists Frank Sinatra and Elvis, neither of whom ever wrote a lyric!! Then there is the artist John Rich.
 
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