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2018 Grammy Discussion Thread

twaintrain

twaintrain

Well-known member
^Ed’s album is incredible. He puts so much emotion into his music. Plus, he was the biggest-selling artist of the year, until Taylor. He deserved the nominations more than anyone, IMO.
 
CUnderwoodSparkles

CUnderwoodSparkles

Member
Farawayhills said:
Yes, congratulations to Sierra and Justin. You can see a write-up and pictures of the wedding of these two much loved, but personally unassuming, leading artists on the young Bluegrass scene here:
https://bluegrasstoday.com/congratulations-sierra-and-justin/

On the sometimes controversial topic of which field Grammy submissions appear in - there are a number of secretive backroom Grammy committees which determine this, sometimes moving artists away from the field they (or their fans) would have preferred. It's not usually possible to know when or if this has occurred.

I've mentioned before that there has been a trend over several years for the Grammys to move away from the more inclusive (and sometimes perceived as "quirky") mix of commercial and alternative submissions in the "big" genre fields, towards a line-up more acceptable to the priorities of the major record labels and radio. This has certainly been the case with the Country field - and several blogs have been particularly critical of this year's Country line-up, perceived as leaning heavily towards Pop.

As for the description of some Roots acts as "Folk", I don't find this surprising. Historically, Country Music and Blues were often described as "Folk" - and the term was considered more polite, as the earlier "Hillbilly" and "Race" terms for early recordings were being phased out. Hank Williams was often introduced by announcers as a Folk musician in the '40s and early '50s. The labels increasingly wanted to identify with more sophisticated and less rural audiences, and the term "Folk" was also dropped, along with Rockabilly and Honky-tonk, in favour of "Country Music" as the more Pop--influenced Nashville Sound developed from the mid-'50s.

Today, however, "Folk" or "Folk Rock" is quite widely used by Roots artists who prefer not to identify with Country (for reasons often partly political/cultural, and partly due to wanting to avoid the more polished sound). Sarah Jarosz is popular with Folk fans, and often appears at Folk venues and festivals. Her super-group with Sara Watkins and Aoife O'Donovan, "Im With Her", is often described as a Folk trio - so, again, I don't find the placing surprising.
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Excellent and knowledgeable as usual! I'm always happy to learn every new lecture from you

This is a country song I started enjoying in 2012 when it was listed on the CMT weekly voting
It's not bluegrass, but on the other hand, I guess its musical composition is very close to folk music, isn't it?
I haven't had any new information about this group. And perhaps they don't have a well-known career

 
clh_hilary

clh_hilary

New member
I would've preferred Song of the Year going to 1-800 and Record of the Year to "Despacito", and I certainly didn't care for Bruno Mars's album, but this identity politics thing is ridiculous.

Mars is the second ever Asian (first man, and the only other one John Lennon's wife who won with him), and third ever Latino (the only one winning it solo) to win this. He's even part-Jewish.

But somehow his win is still demonstrating "institutional racism". Is racism only possible against black acts? With 13 black winners, black people are actually OVERrepresented in Album of the Year, but nowadays no-one is allowed to win anything if you're not black. Mars is even part-Jewish and a second-generation immigrant.

There have been 60 Albums of the Year. 1 was a compilation so for all intents and purposes shouldn't even be counted here, but still, 13 black winners is 21.67%. How many black people are there in the US? Not even 13%!

There's close to 6% Asians. 1.5 winners = 2.5%.

More than 17% of the USA are Latino. 3 winners = 5%.

Who's actually the underrepresented group?

---

And winning against women?

Who won in 2017? Adele. 2016? Taylor Swift. 2015? Beck. 2014? Daft Punk. 2013? Mumford & Sons. 2012? Adele. 2011? Arcade Fire. 2010? Taylor Swift. 2009? Plant & Kruass.

In other words, in the past 10 years, 4.5 were women. Was that really a gender imbalance?
 
pklongbeach

pklongbeach

Active member
Trends are going to happen when this is basically a "peer vote". The voters are really just asked to vote for the one they want to win for Album. There is not much criteria. but this years show did seem to go way out of its way to support artists of color and make "globalism" and immigration a prominent feature.
My thing is, if you decide it was off-balanced in years past then swinging so strongly in the opposite direction makes no sense.
 
pklongbeach

pklongbeach

Active member
I did not mind the focus. And I think it was very topical and important. But maybe they could have put a show together that was about that instead of making the entire grammys about it. Again, I did not mind it, it was just very heavy handed
 
CUnderwoodSparkles

CUnderwoodSparkles

Member
clh_hilary said:
I would've preferred Song of the Year going to 1-800 and Record of the Year to "Despacito", and I certainly didn't care for Bruno Mars's album, but this identity politics thing is ridiculous.

Mars is the second ever Asian (first man, and the only other one John Lennon's wife who won with him), and third ever Latino (the only one winning it solo) to win this. He's even part-Jewish.

But somehow his win is still demonstrating "institutional racism". Is racism only possible against black acts? With 13 black winners, black people are actually OVERrepresented in Album of the Year, but nowadays no-one is allowed to win anything if you're not black. Mars is even part-Jewish and a second-generation immigrant.

There have been 60 Albums of the Year. 1 was a compilation so for all intents and purposes shouldn't even be counted here, but still, 13 black winners is 21.67%. How many black people are there in the US? Not even 13%!

There's close to 6% Asians. 1.5 winners = 2.5%.

More than 17% of the USA are Latino. 3 winners = 5%.

Who's actually the underrepresented group?

---

And winning against women?

Who won in 2017? Adele. 2016? Taylor Swift. 2015? Beck. 2014? Daft Punk. 2013? Mumford & Sons. 2012? Adele. 2011? Arcade Fire. 2010? Taylor Swift. 2009? Plant & Kruass.

In other words, in the past 10 years, 4.5 were women. Was that really a gender imbalance?
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Great to see another analytical thinker!

Plus, the winners of Best Country Solo Performance, since 2012, have been 3 women (Carrie, Maren, and Swift) and 2 men
 
clh_hilary

clh_hilary

New member
CUnderwoodSparkles said:
Great to see another analytical thinker!

Plus, the winners of Best Country Solo Performance, since 2012, have been 3 women (Carrie, Maren, and Swift) and 2 men
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Perhaps people should complain about the lack of AOTYs from Dolly Parton, Reba McEntire, Shania Twain, Carrie Underwood, George Strait, Luke Bryan, Kenny Chesney, Brad Paisley, Garth Brooks, Johnny Cash, Miranda Lambert, Jason Aldean, Tim McGraw, Faith Hill, Blake Shelton, Keith Urban, Alan Jackson, Rascal Flatts, Florida-Georgia Line, Toby Keith, Eric Church, Vince Gill, Randy Travis, Tammy Wynette, LeAnn Rimes, Pasty Cline and say the Grammys are actually racist against white people. ;)
 
clh_hilary

clh_hilary

New member
pklongbeach said:
Trends are going to happen when this is basically a "peer vote". The voters are really just asked to vote for the one they want to win for Album. There is not much criteria. but this years show did seem to go way out of its way to support artists of color and make "globalism" and immigration a prominent feature.
My thing is, if you decide it was off-balanced in years past then swinging so strongly in the opposite direction makes no sense.
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That's not even my point. I think people should only get nominations and awards based on merits, but the claim that Bruno Mars's win was a continous oppression against "underrepresented" black musicians was simply a flatout lie.

How "diverse" can you go beyond awarding someone who's part Native American, Pacific Islander, Jewish, Asian, singing "black people's music", and is actually dark skinned and quite short, and a second-generation immigrant from an often overlooked outlying state? That is without considering the fact he can outsing practically everyone while dancing circles over everyone, all while being an incredibly consistently successful, critically acclaimed hitmaker, and an experienced songwriter. Oh, and he's a global superstar too!
 
pklongbeach

pklongbeach

Active member
clh_hilary said:
That's not even my point. I think people should only get nominations and awards based on merits, but the claim that Bruno Mars's win was a continous oppression against "underrepresented" black musicians was simply a flatout lie.

How "diverse" can you go beyond awarding someone who's part Native American, Pacific Islander, Jewish, Asian, singing "black people's music", and is actually dark skinned and quite short, and a second-generation immigrant from an often overlooked outlying state? That is without considering the fact he can outsing practically everyone while dancing circles over everyone, all while being an incredibly consistently successful, critically acclaimed hitmaker, and an experienced songwriter. Oh, and he's a global superstar too!
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I agree with you. I don't think he won it out of some effort to right a wrong..... not at all. I was just stating that you can see trends. More in the actual presentation. I have always found the grammys to be fairly random when it comes to winners. Except when they decide to give everything to one person. I always hate when that happens...
 
Farawayhills

Farawayhills

Well-known member
Morgane Hayes Stapleton (who co-wrote "Don't Forget To Remember Me" some thirteen years ago), pictured with her husband on the Grammy red carpet walk. The couple are awaiting the birth of twins. Morgane was wearing a classic Grecian styled dress, designed by Tiffany Gifford.

AP18028862163507_10610187_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg
 
Farawayhills

Farawayhills

Well-known member
clh_hilary said:
And winning against women?

Who won in 2017? Adele. 2016? Taylor Swift. 2015? Beck. 2014? Daft Punk. 2013? Mumford & Sons. 2012? Adele. 2011? Arcade Fire. 2010? Taylor Swift. 2009? Plant & Kruass.

In other words, in the past 10 years, 4.5 were women. Was that really a gender imbalance?
Click to expand...

CUnderwoodSparkles said:
Plus, the winners of Best Country Solo Performance, since 2012, have been 3 women (Carrie, Maren, and Swift) and 2 men
Click to expand...

I don't think you can dismiss that argument by selecting just a couple of award categories, and citing as examples what appear to be mainly a handful of high profile women.

Overall, the picture is pretty bleak. Out of a total of 84 awards this year, only 11 went to women. More importantly (since the nominations determine the pool from which the winners can be selected), If you consider the total spread of nominees over the past five years (2013-8), over 90% were male (The actual proportion of female nominees was 9.3%)
Source (with additional links)
https://www.rollingstone.com/music/...esident-for-saying-women-must-step-up-w516091
So, yes, there does seem to be a serious imbalance between the sexes.

And it is not because women are not stepping up, in the performance area. If you take Country, there is a very striking disconnect between the range of albums selected by critics as the best of year, (where many recent lists have shown 40-50%, or sometimes more, of the most highly praised albums of the last few years as made by women), and the proportion being given award nominations. There are two main reasons for this disconnect that I would highlight - firstly that radio is heavily dominated by male executives and programmers, and lack of radio play has more influence on talented women being overlooked than I believe it should, because voters are often too preoccupied to consider the full range of worthy possibilities - and often rely on public notability, more than content, in casting their votes; - and secondly, because the Grammy voting pool contains a high proportion of producers, engineers and similar technical insiders - fields which are themselves heavily male dominated. I'm not claiming, of course, that all voters are biased, but it would be unwise to believe that upbringing, social attitudes and assumptions about the type of recording most favoured does not lead to a degree of innate or customary bias, which can play a significant part in the voting.

So, to take the executive's awkward and ill-considered remark that women need to step up - if it has any truth, it would probably be in the fields of radio and record production - where more female participation is overdue, and sorely needed (Whether the relative lack of women in those fields is more due to them currently not choosing to enter such fields in large numbers, or whether it is more due to low corporate willingness to recruit or promote them is, of course, another question)
 
R

rcramer

Well-known member
^^^^ Adele and Beyonce, I agree with but Taylor....... Please......I would love to see where she ever causes ratings to go up on any show.........

Im sure what made them lose the ratings was the political bs.......... No one wants to hear that........
 
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